Legislature(1993 - 1994)
03/16/1993 01:30 PM House JUD
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* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
HOUSE JUDICIARY STANDING COMMITTEE
March 16, 1992
1:30 p.m.
MEMBERS PRESENT
Representative Dave Donley, Chairman
Representative Max Gruenberg, Vice-Chairman
Representative Johnny Ellis
Representative Mark Hanley
Representative Pat Parnell
Representative Terry Martin
MEMBERS ABSENT
Representative Mike Miller
COMMITTEE CALENDAR
SJR 1: Proposing and amendment to the Constitution of the
State of Alaska relating to the individual right
to keep and bear arms.
HEARD AND HELD TO WEDNESDAY, MARCH 18, 1992
WITNESS REGISTER
Robert Laguire
P.O. Box 792
Sitka, Alaska 99835
Phone: 747-8791
Position Statement: Opposed State Affairs CS
Richard Barlow
HC02, Box 7550
Palmer, Alaska 99645
Phone: none
Position Statement: Supported SJR 1
Jean Woods
P.O. Box 827
Palmer, Alaska 99645
Phone: none
Position Statement: Opposed State Affairs CS
Senator Pat Rodey
Alaska State Legislature
State Capitol
Juneau, Alaska 99801-1182
Phone: 465-3793
Position Statement: Sponsor of SJR 1
Mike Milligan
S.R. 9121
Kodiak, Alaska 99615
Phone: 487-2686
Position Statement: Supported SJR 1
Karl Berggren, Jr.
P.O. Box 2079
Kodiak, Alaska 99615
Phone: 486-3462
Position Statement: Opposed State Affairs CS
Elzie Isley
2533 3rd Ave.
Ketchikan, Alaska 99901
Phone: 225-4881
Position Statement: Supported SJR 1
Dave Helmick
P.O. Box 913
Petersburg, Alaska 99833
Phone: 772-4790
Position Statement: Opposed State Affairs CS
Dave Claytor
P.O. Box 882
Petersburg, Alaska 99833
Phone: 772-3761
Position Statement: Opposed State Affairs CS
William F. Smith
P.O. Box 68
Valdez, Alaska 99686
Phone: 835-2910
Position Statement: Opposed State Affairs CS
Nick Zerbinos
P.O. Box 371
Glenallen, Alaska 99588
Phone: 822-3033
Position Statement: Opposed State Affairs CS
Ed Knoebel
P.O. Box 84
Glenallen, Alaska 99588
Phone: 822-3208
Position Statement: Opposed State Affairs CS
Rocky Ansell
P.O. Box 217
Copper Center, Alaska 99573
Phone: 822-3033
Position Statement: Supported SJR 1
C.P. Bartley
HC003, Box 8758
Palmer, Alaska 99645
Phone: 822-3905
Position Statement: Opposed State Affairs CS
Harris Stuermer
P.O. Box 508
Barrow, Alaska 99733
Phone: 852-7606
Position Statement: Opposed State Affairs CS
Dave Lovett
P.O. Box 411
Delta Junction, Alaska 99737
Phone: 895-5113
Position Statement: Opposed State Affairs CS
Joe Vogler
P.O. Box 40
Fairbanks, Alaska 99707
Phone: 479-2344
Position Statement: Opposed State Affairs CS
Lynette Clark
2521 Old Steese Hwy. N.
Fairbanks, Alaska 99712
Phone: 457-1884
Position Statement: Opposed State Affairs CS
Jamie Cox
2132-A Old Steese Hwy. N.
Fairbanks, Alaska 99712
Phone: 457-2620
Position Statement: Opposed State Affairs CS
Sybil Skelton
15 Eleanor
Fairbanks, Alaska 99709
Phone: 451-8599
Position Statement: Opposed SJR 1
Bob Brunlow
3811 E. 84th Street
Anchorage, Alaska 99507
Phone: 349-8237
Position Statement: Opposed State Affairs CS
Lucille Clark
525 B Street
Anchorage, Alaska 99501
Phone: 277-3733
Position Statement: Opposed State Affairs CS
Harold Stafford
P.O. Box 1911
Anchorage, Alaska 99521
Phone: 337-8577
Position Statement: Opposed State Affairs CS
Rudy Vetter
P.O. Box 70342
Fairbanks, Alaska 99707
Phone: none
Position Statement: Opposed State Affairs CS
Bruce Campbell
P.O. Box 2245
Fairbanks, Alaska 99708
Position Statement: Opposed State Affairs CS
Gary Hammond
P.O. Box 71136
Fairbanks, Alaska 99707
Phone: 455-6131
Position Statement: Opposed State Affairs CS
Steven Guildner
P.O. Box 75303
Fairbanks, Alaska 99707
Phone: 455-6131
Position Statement: Opposed State Affairs CS
Larry Bendall
2255 Solstice Ave.
Fairbanks, Alaska 99707
Phone: 455-6543
Position Statement: Supported original version of SJR 1
Richard L. Burton
Commissioner
Department of Public Safety
P.O. Box 111200
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0200
Phone: 465-4322
Position Statement: Testified on DPS concerns on SJR 1
Dean Guaneli
Department of Law
P.O. Box 110300
Juneau, Alaska 99811-0300
Phone: 465-3600
Position Statement: Explained department's views on SJR 1
Randy Smith
430 W. 7th Street #117
Anchorage, Alaska 99501
Phone: 277-3733
Position Statement: Supported original version of SJR 1
Wayne Ross
P.O. Box 101522
Anchorage, Alaska 99510
Phone: 277-1617
Position Statement: Supported original version of SJR 1
Duane Udland
Alaska Association of Chiefs of Police
4501 S. Bragaw
Anchorage, Alaska
Phone: 786-8583
Position Statement: Opposed State Affairs CS
Harry Keller
P.O. Box 32442
Juneau, Alaska 99803
Phone: 789-7218
Position Statement: Supported original version of SJR 1
Scott Burgess
Alaska Municipal League
27 2nd Street
Juneau, Alaska 586-1325
Position Statement: Supported intent of SJR 1
Dick Bishop
Alaska Outdoor Council
P.O. Box 34097
Juneau, Alaska 99803
Phone: 463-3830
Position Statement: Supported SJR 1
PREVIOUS ACTION
BILL: SJR 1
SHORT TITLE: RIGHT TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS
SPONSOR(S): SENATOR(S) RODEY,Fischer,Halford,Sturgulewski,
Shultz,Frank,Menard,Jones; REPRESENTATIVE(S) Zawacki,Donley
JRN-DATE JRN-PG ACTION
01/11/91 17 (S) PREFILE RELEASED
01/21/91 17 (S) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
01/21/91 17 (S) JUD, THEN FINANCE
01/31/91 (S) JUD AT 01:30 PM BUTROVICH
ROOM 205
01/31/91 (S) MINUTE(JUD)
03/05/91 (S) JUD AT 01:30 PM BUTROVICH
ROOM 205
03/05/91 (S) MINUTE(JUD)
03/06/91 442 (S) JUD RPT 4DP 1DNP
03/06/91 443 (S) FISCAL NOTE PUBLISHED (ELECT)
03/06/91 443 (S) ZERO FISCAL NOTE PUBLISHED
(LAW)
04/05/91 770 (S) FIN RPT 2DP 3NR 2DNP
04/05/91 770 (S) PREVIOUS FISCAL NOTE (ELECT)
04/05/91 770 (S) PREVIOUS ZERO FN (LAW)
04/05/91 (S) FIN AT 09:00 AM FINANCE
ROOM 518
04/05/91 (S) MINUTE(FIN)
04/08/91 (S) RLS AT 12:00 PM BUTROVICH
ROOM 205
04/08/91 (S) MINUTE(RLS)
04/10/91 822 (S) RULES TO CALENDAR 4/10/91
04/10/91 824 (S) READ THE SECOND TIME
04/10/91 825 (S) ADVANCED TO THIRD READING
UNAN CONSENT
04/10/91 825 (S) READ THE THIRD TIME SJR 1
04/10/91 825 (S) COSPONSOR(S): JONES
04/10/91 825 (S) PASSED Y14 N3 E2 A1
04/10/91 825 (S) HALFORD NOTICE OF
RECONSIDERATION
04/12/91 852 (S) RECON TAKEN UP-IN THIRD READING
04/12/91 852 (S) HELD UNDER RECONSIDERATION TO
4/17/91
04/17/91 903 (S) HELD UNDER RECONSIDERATION TO
4/24/91
04/24/91 988 (S) RETURN TO SECOND FOR AM 2
UNAN CONSENT
04/24/91 988 (S) AM NO 1 NOT OFFERED
04/24/91 988 (S) AM NO 2 OFFERED BY COTTEN
04/24/91 988 (S) AM NO 2 FAILED Y8 N10 E1 A1
04/24/91 988 (S) AUTOMATICALLY IN THIRD READING
04/24/91 989 (S) PASSED ON RECONSIDERATION
Y15 N3 E1 A1
04/24/91 991 (S) TRANSMITTED TO (H)
04/26/91 960 (H) READ THE FIRST TIME/REFERRAL(S)
04/26/91 960 (H) STA, JUD, FINANCE
04/26/91 989 (H) CROSS SPONSOR(S): ZAWACKI
05/17/91 (H) STA AT 08:00 AM CAPITOL RM 102
05/17/91 (H) MINUTE(STA)
05/18/91 1570 (H) STA RPT HCS(STA) 5DP
05/18/91 1570 (H) (DP: BRUCKMAN, GRUENBERG,MOYER,
05/18/91 1570 (H) ...CHOQUETTE, KUBINA)
05/18/91 1570 (H) -PREV SEN FN (ELECT) 3/6/91
05/18/91 1570 (H) -PREV SEN ZERO FN (LAW)
3/6/91
01/13/92 1959 (H) CROSS SPONSOR(S): DONLEY
03/16/92 (H) JUD AT 01:30 PM CAPITOL 120
ACTION NARRATIVE
TAPE JUD 92-37, SIDE A
Number 000
Chairman Donley called the meeting to order at 1:35 p.m.,
noting the members in attendance. He announced he would
take testimony from around the state by teleconference on
SJR 1.
Number 026
ROBERT LAGUIRE testified from Sitka that he objected to the
use of the word "unreasonably" in the State Affairs
committee substitute for SJR 1.
Number 123
RICHARD BARLOW testified from the Mat-Su teleconference site
that as a member of the National Rifle Association (NRA) he
supported the concept of the resolution to protect second
amendment rights.
Number 157
JEAN WOODS spoke on behalf of the Matanuska Valley
Sportsmen, stating the group did not support the inclusion
of "unreasonably" in the CS.
Number 200
Representative Ellis asked Ms. Woods whether the group
generally supported the right to keep and bear arms.
Ms. Woods replied that it was important to include the
individual right in the constitution, and her organization
supported the resolution except for the term "unreasonably."
Number 225
SENATOR PAT RODEY, sponsor of SJR 1, referred to a legal
opinion from the Department of Law that says the current
language in the state constitution does not extend the right
to bear arms to individuals, which is the reason for this
legislation.
Number 265
Representative Ellis asked whether there were new legal
opinions from the current administration.
Chairman Donley pointed out documents in members' files from
the Departments of Law and Public Safety.
Number 294
MIKE MILLIGAN testified from Kodiak that he supported the
right to keep and bear arms, and supported the inclusion of
"unreasonably" in the CS. He voiced support for local
governments retaining the right to regulate use of guns as
they deem appropriate.
Number 365
Representative Martin raised the question of municipal
authority being undermined by restriction of their ability
to regulate gun possession.
Discussion followed on the references in the resolution to
political subdivisions and whether that language should be
deleted.
Number 424
KARL BERGGREN testified from Kodiak in support of the spirit
of the resolution, but opposed the use of "unreasonably."
Chairman Donley discussed the question of which standard
would be applied; specifically, a compelling public safety
interest or other standard of reasonableness.
Number 475
ELZIE ISLEY of Ketchikan testified that he would like to see
the right to bear arms extended to include possession of
semi-automatic weapons.
Number 495
DAVE HELMICK testified from Petersburg in support of the
resolution, but objected to "unreasonably" in the CS.
Number 509
DAVID CLAYTOR of Petersburg said he favored existing
statutes, and "unreasonably" should be left in the CS.
Number 523
WILLIAM SMITH of Valdez objected to "unreasonably" in the
CS.
Number 530
NICK ZERBINOS of Glenallen strongly opposed including
"unreasonably" in the CS.
Number 550
ED KNOEBEL, also of Glenallen, testified that "unreasonably"
should be removed from the resolution.
Number 564
ROCKY ANSELL testified that if "unreasonably" was to be used
in the resolution, it should be clearly defined.
Number 588
HARRIS STUERMER from Barrow objected to "unreasonably" and
supported a higher standard.
Number 597
DAVE LOVETT of Delta Junction supported the resolution to
include individual rights to bear arms in the state's
constitution, but said he believed that the "unreasonably"
amendment weakens the right.
Number 610
JOE VOGLER of Fairbanks spoke against including
"unreasonably" in the resolution.
Number 625
LYNETTE CLARK said the language in the State Affairs CS
would open a myriad of problems for the legislature and
municipalities to resolve.
Number 661
JAMIE COX testified from Fairbanks that she did not support
the "unreasonably" provision, because it would give too much
power to the courts and law enforcement officers.
Number 692
SYBIL SKELTON said she saw no reason for this legislation.
Number 713
BOB BRUNLOW, a firearms instructor of the University of
Alaska Anchorage, suggested a permit system might help
resolve gun problems. He said he supported the individual
right to bear arms and opposed the use of "unreasonably" in
the resolution.
Number 730
LUCILLE CLARK said she felt including "unreasonably" in the
resolution would infringe on constitutional rights.
Number 747
HAROLD STAFFORD objected to "unreasonably." He said he
believed citizens should be able to get permits to carry
concealed weapons.
Number 780
RUDY VETTER of Fairbanks objected to "unreasonably" and said
individuals should have the right of self-protection.
Number 790
BRUCE CAMPBELL testified from Fairbanks that existing laws
should be used to limit criminal use of firearms. He said
"unreasonably" should be deleted.
Number 805
GARY HAMMOND testified that, as written, the current
constitutional provision might be misinterpreted. He
supported specifically guaranteeing individual rights.
Number 838
STEVEN GUILDNER strongly objected to "unreasonably" in the
resolution.
Number 842
LARRY BENDALL testified that he preferred the original
version of the resolution and objected to the addition of
"unreasonably."
TAPE 92-37, SIDE B
Number 000
Chairman Donley announced he would take testimony from
witnesses present with the committee in Juneau.
COMMISSIONER RICHARD BURTON of the Department of Public
Safety related the term "unreasonably" to fourth amendment
protections from unreasonable search and seizure. He said
the probable cause standard had stood the test in courts,
and there does need to be some regulation of firearms.
Chairman Donley announced that a current Judiciary CS work
draft would delete "unreasonably." He explained the effect
this would have on actions taken to protect a compelling
public safety interest.
Number 107
Commissioner Burton cautioned that he did not want to see
legislation that would prohibit reasonable regulation
relating to firearms in the future.
Number 130
Representative Gruenberg discussed with Commissioner Burton
the issue of court interpretation and application of
standards, including a compelling public interest standard.
Number 267
DEAN GUANELI testified on behalf of the Department of Law.
He said the Criminal Division supported the right to bear
arms and he believed that Article 1, Section 19, of the
state constitution had served the state well. He said it
was a serious matter to amend the constitution. He
explained the department's views on the courts'
interpretation of firearms laws.
Number 344
Chairman Donley clarified that under this constitutional
amendment, current firearms laws would be grandfathered into
statutes.
Number 354
Mr. Guaneli and the chairman discussed self-defense laws in
relation to possession of concealed weapons, and a Colorado
case in particular.
Number 412
Representative Gruenberg referred to the sliding scale test
and discussed the appropriate standards for courts to apply
in deciding cases. He stressed the importance of stating
the intent clearly in the resolution.
Number 467
Senator Rodey mentioned that the Alaska Supreme Court had
never decided a case based on the second amendment.
Number 479
Mr. Guaneli cited cases in Anchorage relating to concealed
weapons in vehicles, as well as other municipal firearms
laws. He cautioned this resolution could allow the courts
to strike down those municipal laws.
Number 525
Senator Rodey assured the committee that the resolution was
intended to provide for reasonable exercise of police
powers.
Number 600
Discussion followed among the committee members, the
sponsor, and Mr. Guaneli regarding the local preemption
issue. It was agreed that passage of the resolution should
not tie the hands of future legislators.
Number 638
Representative Gruenberg identified two specific issues for
the committee to address: first, the danger in subsection
(b) of the proposed CS of "freezing" the amendment in time
by prohibiting future legislators from passing firearms
legislation; and second, identification of the appropriate
standard of reasonableness.
Number 672
Senator Rodey said he did not find current laws on the books
to be inappropriate.
Number 702
Chairman Donley announced the committee would continue to
hear testimony from the teleconference network.
Number 711
RANDY SMITH spoke on behalf of the Alaska Outdoor Council,
supporting the original version of SJR 1.
Number 756
WAYNE ROSS, a member of the NRA, said he supported the
original version of SJR 1, and he felt subsection (b) of the
CS was workable. He said he believed that law enforcement
officials have raised issues that were not legitimate.
TAPE 92-38, SIDE A
Number 000
Chairman Donley announced that the scheduled teleconference
network time had expired so the remainder of the testimony
would be from the Juneau committee room.
Number 069
DUANE UDLAND, Deputy Chief of the Anchorage Police
Department, testified that he did support the individual
right to bear arms. He said the opposition from the Chiefs
of Police organization was based on the drafting of proposed
amendments. He said it was important to preserve a
legitimate state interest in making laws and reasonable
regulations. He discussed with the chairman the issue of
local preemption, which Chairman Donley felt was not
relevant to the proposal before the committee. There was
continued discussion on the issue among the committee
members and the witness.
Number 362
HARRY KELLER of Juneau offered support for SJR 1 as
originally drafted.
Number 380
SCOTT BURGESS, on behalf of the Alaska Municipal League
(AML), agreed that the intent of the legislation was good,
but the AML had problems with the potential of the law. He
expressed concern over future interpretation of the law, and
felt that reasonable regulation was necessary to protect the
public.
Number 431
Chairman Donley cited states that did not have state
preemption of local lawmaking.
Number 478
DICK BISHOP of the Alaska Outdoor Council supported the
resolution but spoke in opposition to the House State
Affairs committee substitute, stating that it would open the
opportunity for a range of interpretation. He referred to
gun laws in Washington, D.C., and New York City, and the
issue of gun registration. He urged the committee to weigh
the issues of rational regulation and a compelling state
interest. He added that the burden should be on the state.
Number 575
Chairman Donley said the day's testimony had helped narrow
the focus of key issues to be resolved and announced that
SJR 1 would be held over to Wednesday, March 18. He
adjourned the meeting at 3:40 p.m.
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